I just ran across this site

And I found some useful information for clerics and tank classes alike.

Below are 4 seperate threads that they had for tanking classes.

Post subject: Tedahmeister's Guide to Tanking (1 of 4)Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2009
*** NOTE ***
Used to raid here and was chatting with Gaggrol cross server he requested that I post my four guides here for general knowledge on tanking. Much of the content that I have extracted comes from previous posts, mainly citing the extensive research that Hrendra did on damage mitigation. The following 4 guides are brought up to date and provide a good baseline for any warrior wanting to take on end game content in EQ.
**** ****

I’ve decided to go with 4 posts and stage the information so that I can cover it in an overview and then get in more depth with formulaic explanations about how damage mitigation works.

Overview:
In order to understand the specifics you need to understand - what are the components of being a true tank class in EQ. This includes the following:

a) Getting agro – understand all ways that agro can be generated – what disciplines are used, what are their timers, how do proc’ing weapons enter into the process.
b) Keeping agro, how does taunt work with the agro system
c) Taking a lot of damage – what’s the best path to accomplish this goal
d) Using disciplines to mitigate damage
e) Adding more DPS during fights by proper use of disciplines
f) Knowing your place in the tank order at all times
g) Having a full knowledge of the event you are in, what mobs are involved, and what your assignment is, if you don’t know --- ask
h) Knowing when to and when not to use aoe taunt, weapons , or damage
i) Knowing and understanding Armor Class (AC) and how it works with shielding and non shielding bandolier sets.
j) Knowing the relationship of AC – HP… there is a correlation.
k) How do heroic stats affect my overall effectiveness as a tank?
l) How does using 1h weapon vs 2h weapon affect how much Riposte damage I tank from mobs?
m) When is it more appropriate to use the Evasive Disciple vs the Defen/FS disc?
n) What is an AC Hard cap? What is an AC soft cap?
o) What is proximity agro? How does it work? Does it affect how I maintain agro?
p) What is the best process on using AAXP to build and enhance my warrior functionality?
q) What is “snap” agro. How is it used effectively?


This leaves us with some baseline of what to consider when tanking:

1)The basic formula for a tank is… don’t get hit… aka DODGE, AVOIDANCE, BLOCK, PARRY
2) and if you are gonna get hit… do what it takes to build your character to as much as possible to mitigate the damage you are taking. DAMAGE MITIGATION
3) Communicate with your group/raid/warrior channel on what tools are available to you. What buffs do you have/don’t have. … what’s the refresh timer on Divine Intervention?

Conclusion:

Let’s say that we have TANK X about to tank a mob in Y zone. What’s the first thing that he/she should consider before tanking anything?
1) What the damage output of the mob
2) What’s his AC relative to the level of the mob , and how much does his/her AC mitigate the damage.
3) What is the healing required to safely keep this warrior alive in the zone/raid event?

In the next guide (2 of 4) I will go further into these areas in more detail and start to provide more mathematical examples of how the tank class interacts with the damage output of mobs in relation to their damage, your AC and what is the most efficient way to tank each encounter.

(This is a work in progress and suggestions are appreciated in case I have left anything out)

Post subject: Tedahmeister's Guide to Tanking (2 of 4)

Aggro - Here are the following methods:

1 - increase swing hate (weapon ratio, agro mod [ spell or worn])
2 - increase number of swings per minute (worn Ferocity, AAs [flurry, ferocity, punishing blade, haste/overhaste])
3 - increase proc hate (Dexterity [if low], choice of proc, Combat Effects, Weapon Affinity, agro mod, proccing shield)
4 - increase spell hate (clicky agro spells [wish shoulders, PoR BP, etc], agro mod)
5 - "worn proc hate" (offensive: Panther, Time/VT clicky, Bard DoN proc song; defensive: Sloth, Lassitude, Skin of the Reptile)
6 - Miscellany (1st on agro list, chain/stack agro disciplines, taunting, bash, crippling hit)
Notes: Taunt is NOT used every time it becomes available – it is used when you are trying to “put” yourself at the top of the list taunt wise… if you follow it up with some other proc’ing mech such as Vish Shoulders, or Right click your group/raid BP to lock agro this is the most efficient use of Taunt.

HitPoints

HP are great and you need them but you also need to generate them in the most dynamic way possible. This means you want to look at the most balanced way you can increase your “Herioc” stats along with the Combat Effects (CE), Avoidance, Shielding. The first order of business in kinda backwards for a tank regarding completing your AAXP.

First you want to work on your defensive AA, then your offensive.

The must haves, such as AOE Taunt, etc should be factored in and if you are building a tank to just load up on AAXP level 71 is the sweet spot. In the later guides I will get into more detail on how a well rounded tank does three things, 1 – Avoids getting hit (Dodge/Parry/Riposte – you need to reduce it by using shield or 2h weapon), 2- Reduces getting hit for large damage (damage mitigation) AC plays a big part here , 3- Effectively use disciplines, epic weapons, and special discs to maximize the amount of HP

Armor Class – (AC)

Some people say that AC rules all.. it’s true … but you also need HP to allow yourself extreme damage spikes on any encounter. Early in the game there was a HARD cap… if you were at 3200 ac you were golden… anything over that was wasted.. now it’s a soft cap. The major breaks are 4200, 4500, 4900, 5200, 5550, and 5800 AC… 4200 being the entry point for coming in and semi-tanking the current raid content we have in Firestormers. 5800 on the high end with other factors allows Gwarf/Jans to almost one tank – Lord Bretcht. As you strengthen as a tank you will notice that damage becomes more mitigated in relation to the hardness of the mob. (I will go into detail how this occurs mathematically as I get deeper into the math of the exponential smoothing).

Communication:

Knowing where to be, having all of your clickies refreshed for a raid event, knowing the raid event, where you are on the tank list, logging into Ventrilo if that is an option for you. It takes good communication for a Warrior to function optimally in a raid environment. Don’t go AFK unless you state so in warrior channel, raid, or group. Due to the heavy damage output of the end game content there is need for major focus on quick tank switching, and crisp communication between the tank set/raid.

Mathematical Terms Used in Damage Formulas:

Here is the base formula of what happens when you get hit:

H = DB *(1.00-S) + (N*DI)

This means H = the HIT of a mob on you

DB = The damage base – the lowest possible value you can be hit by the mob

S – Your current shielding (max is 35%)

N= Damage Interval number (DI *N)

DI= Damage Interval – there are basically 20 values between the DB (damage base) and the HIGH value – NOTE: The max number for the N value is 20.

The “random computation” of the N number is factored against your AC and class mitigation (warriors have 5% Mit by default).

Damage Mitigation:

Obviously you just have to get better AC and you will take less damage, but it's not the only possibility you have. You can purchase the mitigation line of AA (CS +10%, PE +2%, LI +5%, DI 2.5%) ~20% total dps reduction
This leads to the next mathematical computation which is the meat and potatoes for the warrior maximizing damage mitigation:

DM=DB+x*DI

DM= Damage max for the hit

DB=Damage Base

X =(same as N in the example above … it’s the Random number generated between 1 and 20)

DI = Damage interval
----
Here is the first tablature that will give you an idea of the AC

NOTE: 135 ac shield in all tests, ADI=Average DI #, Spike=Double DI17+ Round
1213 displayed ac (731 defense 22 avoidance 460 item) = 9.44 ADI/4.748 spike%, 1285 hits
1302 displayed ac (731 defense 22 avoidance 549 item) = 9.73 ADI/2.962 spike%, 4486 hits
1399 displayed ac (731 defense 39 avoidance 629 item) = 7.02 ADI/2.002 spike%, 1585 hits
1504 displayed ac (731 defense 22 avoidance 751 item) = 7.20 ADI/1.369 spike%, 1719 hits
1608 displayed ac (731 defense 22 avoidance 855 item) = 6.88 ADI/1.098 spike%, 2729 hits
1709 displayed ac (731 defense 22 avoidance 956 item) = 6.56 ADI/0.901 spike%, 3222 hits
1805 displayed ac (731 defense 33 avoidance 1041 item) = 6.61 ADI/0.835 spike%, 12300 hits
1903 displayed ac (731 defense 22 avoidance 1150 item) = 6.33 ADI/0.632 spike%, 4303 hits
2002 displayed ac (731 defense 28 avoidance 1243 item) = 6.36 ADI/0.676 spike%, 3712 hits
2102 displayed ac (731 defense 22 avoidance 1349 item) = 6.13 ADI/0.572 spike%, 9640 hits
2203 displayed ac (731 defense 22 avoidance 1450 item) = 5.82 ADI/0.437 spike%, 4569 hits
2304 displayed ac (731 defense 22 avoidance 1551 item) = 5.67 ADI/0.315 spike%, 3136 hits
2400 displayed ac (731 defense 22 avoidance 1647 item) = 5.73 ADI/0.392 spike%, 2429 hits
2501 displayed ac (731 defense 22 avoidance 1748 item) = 5.69 ADI/0.325 spike%, 1901 hits
2600 displayed ac (731 defense 22 avoidance 1847 item) = 5.44 ADI/0.320 spike%, 3061 hits
2703 displayed ac (731 defense 22 avoidance 1950 item) = 5.50 ADI/0.319 spike%, 2971 hits
2798 displayed ac (731 defense 28 avoidance 2039 item) = 4.63 ADI/0.246 spike%, 3403 hits
2900 displayed ac (731 defense 28 avoidance 2141 item) = 5.30 ADI/0.193 spike%, 2691 hits
3002 displayed ac (731 defense 39 avoidance 2232 item) = 5.11 ADI/0.157 spike%, 8997 hits
3101 displayed ac (731 defense 55 avoidance 2315 item) = 5.07 ADI/0.177 spike%, 3067 hits
3207 displayed ac (731 defense 50 avoidance 2426 item) = 5.08 ADI/0.117 spike%, 3111 hits
3309 displayed ac (731 defense 61 avoidance 2517 item) = 4.72 ADI/0.038 spike%, 2821 hits
3402 displayed ac (731 defense 72 avoidance 2599 item) = 4.91 ADI/0.072 spike%, 2778 hits
3499 displayed ac (731 defense 88 avoidance 2680 item) = 4.83 ADI/0.135 spike%, 2830 hits
3611 displayed ac (731 defense 105 avoidance 2775 item) = 4.73 ADI/0.096 spike%, 13784 hits
3698 displayed ac (731 defense 105 avoidance 2862 item) = 4.73 ADI/0.065 spike%, 4672 hits
3783 displayed ac (731 defense 105 avoidance 2947 item) = 4.69 ADI/0.056 spike%, 3324 hits

Notice the lowering of the ADI – which is the damage interval between a very long sequence of hits – I’ll continue to go deeper in the next 3 of 4. (Also notice the drop in ADI at 3200 as mentioned above.

Post subject: Tedahmeister's Guide to Tanking (3 of 4)

Hamstermeister (Sensai) say.... Dodge - The ability to avoid taking damage altogether is a skill (MOD) that is needed by any high level tank. Let's look at what goes into Dodge... let's cover AGILITY - The goal is to max this stat out... especially Herioc Agility. The higher this value, coupled with Herioc, Dexterity, Ambidex, etc significanly increases your chance of getting hit.

And as we covered on the last part of (2 of 4) the ADI (when calculated with the miss of the hit)... provides a welcome boost to Damage mitigation, specifically reducing the extreme values that occur within the DI*N computation. Let's look at the math

You attack MOB X.

It hits you for a round

I will use basic math for the formula.

DB=400, N=20, Damage Interval (DI)=100

So let's plug it in:

But first lets look at the full damage spread

DB 400
DI-1 500
DI-2 600
DI-3 700
DI-4 800
DI-5 900
DI-6 1000
DI-7 1100
DI-8 1200
DI-9 1300
DI-10 1400
DI-11 1500
DI-12 1600
DI-13 1700
DI-14 1800
DI-15 1900
DI-16 2000
DI-17 2100
DI-18 2200
DI-19 2300
DI-20 2400

If you have LOW AC you get a "WIDER" distribution of damage anywhere from 500(DB+DI-1) to 2400 (DI-20).

So over 6 rounds you could get the following with LOW AC (This weights to high values in the DI range do to the extra check to the AC in the HIT (H) formula)

1600,2200,2400,1100 You can look it up on the table.... which totals... 7300 or an average of 1825 per hit which is in the DI-14---DI-15 range.

Now lets throw a dodge in there on the next round:

2100,1300, Dodge,1600 - 5000 damage in that round... 1250 average hit which fits nicely in the DI-8-9 range. Very tankable (at least for that round).

So to recap, the higher you increase your dodge mod, Parry, Avoidance, Lessen Riposte, etc the less damage you take on a series of hits... thus increasing your Damage Mitigation (lessen the amount of damage that you take). --- NOTE: This is where exponential smoothing occurs...if you track the population distribution of damage (parse it) over a long period of time you will see a correlation between the amount of AC you have and where you "FIT" into the DI banding.

This is a nice transition point to cover Shielding. There are AAXP that you need to max to fully benefit from using a shield. What you need to know is that there is an EXTRA check against the AC that is on the SHIELD

SHIELDING .

At this point I need to introduce a new formula that explains how shielding works and interacts with the amount of damage that you take when tanking with a shield:

Shielding does not have a singular universal value. Some mobs have more of their damage coming from DB and some have more coming from DI. On a mob with DB 1 and DI 400 (which doesn't seem to exist; this is only illustrative) shielding will do absolutely nothing. On a mob with DB 1,000 and DI 10, shielding is invaluable. In general, your meanest mobs have more damage coming from DB, because this results in the minimum hit being higher. This means that in the roughest situations--such as tanking boss mobs--shielding is going to do the most good.

Here is the formula:

H = DB *(1.00-S) + (N*DI)

S represents the amount of shielding you have, up to a maximum/cap of 35% shielding. This is where a lot of confusion comes in, because people have an improper understanding of the value of shielding.

As the equation shows, shielding only modifies the DB portion of damage. It shaves off a fixed % of the bonus damage before it gets added to the DI result.

So you get hit for say 1000 well DI-1 is 1100 ... (100 being the DI counter value). If you have max shielding you take 1000- (35 percent of that amount) or 350... so you are taking 650 damage... THEN the DI range gets added to your value do if you had no shielding with a DI-10 hit (2000) you would take DB-1000 + the DI-10 of 1000 which gives you 2000 damage for that hit... with shielding you take 650 + 1000 which is 1650...

Removing shielding for a second for clarity, there are thus 20 discrete values for damage that may result, ranging from: (there is the adding benefit that you get 5% damage mit out of the gate which also lowers the DB computation formula.

Minimum Damage = DB + 1*DI
Maximum Damage = DB + 20*DI

N, which is the random 1-20 number, is affected by your AC and class mitigation.
You can determine all of these numbers simply by watching your logs and damage intake. Let the mob hit you, and collect data, and you can find a range of hits, and extrapolate from there using the formula above.

Let's go sideways a second and talk about Evasive... using this disc increases your dodge modifcation and allows you to miss more. So, depending on the mob you are fighting (raid target) you need to watch for the values of what you are getting hit by and see if the ADI (average DI) provides you with a safe fluctuation of damage so that healers can adjust and keep you alive with the heal chain.

In 4 of 4 I will show an example of the DB, DI, hits that Gwarf/Jans, etc and other are taking on the Lord Bretcht fight ... right now i have 1000 and 15620 (Per my hit's as Tedahmeister which is detailed in 4 of 4) as the DI-1 and D1-20 respectively from him... thats a wide variance. But using what we already know you are starting to get an idea of why Jans and Gwarf live so long... they reduce the number of high DI values during each round -- Greatly increasing their ability to stay alive during the fight.

Post subject: Tedahmeister's Guide to Tanking (4 of 4) - Iterative Data

Ok here is the final installment of the numerical analysis.

As a caveat... I will add some additional numbers from Gwarf and Jans next time we do Lord B. and from some other tanks as well to get a good comparison of data.

The following numbers reflect itterative data

730.85 - This is the N number and I obtained this number by subtracting my lowest hit (1003) from my highest hit (15620) = 14617.

Now I take the 14617 (15620-1003) and then divide in by 20 (remember the maximum number of DI values is 20) ---

This gives you the MAGICAL VALUE of 730.85 (a VERY HIGH N value) ... well he is the BOSS MOB.

DAMAGE TABLE -----!!!!

DB 1003 DB
DI-1 1734 DI-1
DI-2 2465 DI-2
DI-3 3196 DI-3
DI-4 3927 DI-4
DI-5 4658 DI-5
DI-6 5389 DI-6
DI-7 6120 DI-7
DI-8 6851 DI-8
DI-9 7582 DI-9
DI-10 8313 DI-10
DI-11 9044 DI-11
DI-12 9775 DI-12
DI-13 10506 DI-13
DI-14 11237 DI-14
DI-15 11968 DI-15
DI-16 12699 DI-16
DI-17 13430 DI-17
DI-18 14161 DI-18
DI-19 14892 DI-19
DI-20 15623 DI-20

1003 Minimal Damage
15620 Maximum Damage
4245 DI-4-DI-5-DI-6

Explanation:

1) I was using Fortitude and then Final Stand (this means that there was 35 percent damage taken off the original DB number giving me 65 percent of that number (1003) from 1500 (the RAW DB without any mitigation applied)).

2) I didnt add the additional damage from casting, rocks and the like to get a better distribution of the DI random damage hits

3) My AC was 5324 and my HP were 45517 fully raid buffed. Due to the very limited time of getting damage I had a very low DI (the average damage I recieved was in the DI-4-DI-5-DI-6 range per hit) and was healed easily during the remaining 6 percent of the fight on Lord Bretcht.

I need to explain here that the higher the AC the lower the number of extreme values... (HIGH DI-15-20)... AC pretty much lowers your AVERAGE DI value (thus exponential smoothing of a large distribution of damage).

A long set of numbers is needed to show a true picture, but this is what happened to me during the last 6 percent of the life of Bretcht. Anyway without further ado... the numbers dont lie..


DI-4 Brekt, hits 4245
DI-8 Brekt, hits 6945
DI-3 Brekt, hits 3345
DI-4 Brekt, hits 4020
DI-8 Brekt, hits 7170
DI-5 Brekt, hits 5145
DI-19 Brekt, hits 15620
DI-3 Brekt, hits 3745
DI-4 Brekt, hits 4245
DI-4 Brekt, hits 4020
DI-9 Brekt, hits 7620
DI-4 Brekt, hits 4245
DI-3 Brekt, hits 3345
DI-3 Brekt, hits 3345
DI-8 Brekt, hits 7395
DI-3 Brekt, hits 3345
DI-7 Brekt, hits 6270
DI-7 Brekt, hits 6495
DI-5 Brekt, hits 5145
DI-4 Brekt, hits 4245
DI-3 Brekt, hits 3345
DI-7 Brekt, hits 6245
DI-9 Brekt, hits 8120
DI-8 Brekt, hits 6870
DI-8 Brekt, hits 7170
DI-3 Brekt, hits 3345
DI-5 Brekt, hits 5145
DI-3 Brekt, hits 3345
DI-6 Brekt, hits 5595
DI-4 Brekt, hits 4470
DI-3 Brekt, hits 3345
DI-8 Brekt, hits 6945
DI-3 Brekt, hits 3345
DI-9 Brekt, hits 7620
DI-3 Brekt, hits 3795
DI-9 Brekt, hits 7620
DI-7 Brekt, hits 6270
DI-7 Brekt, hits 6245
DI-19 Brekt, hits 15620
DI-8 Brekt, hits 6870
DI-7 Brekt, hits 6245
DI-3 Brekt, hits 3345
DI-3 Brekt, hits 3345
DI-7 Brekt, hits 6270
DI-3 Brekt, hits 3345
DI-8 Brekt, hits 7170
DI-3 Brekt, hits 3570
DI-8 Brekt, hits 6945
DI-3 Brekt, hits 3345
DI-3 Brekt, hits 3345
DI-5 Brekt, hits 5145

More info to come.


Best regards,

Tedahmeister